Excuse me, but how does that relate to the topic?.. Have you watched the above video?
Here is my question again:
Could an all-powerful God have made a world that did not involve millions of years of animal suffering and death?
defender of truth
JoinedPosts by defender of truth
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Theists, why does God allow suffering..
by The Quiet One in..specifically, the suffering of animals.
you can talk about free will/sin/people choosing to not listen to god etc to explain human suffering being allowed.. but how can you love a god that allows animals, that haven't sinned or chosen to not have anything to do with god, to have their short lives ended in often long, drawn out, painful ways.
i could list stories i've read that would probably make you feel ill, but i'm not looking to shock anyone or start an emotional debate.
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defender of truth
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754
Theists, why does God allow suffering..
by The Quiet One in..specifically, the suffering of animals.
you can talk about free will/sin/people choosing to not listen to god etc to explain human suffering being allowed.. but how can you love a god that allows animals, that haven't sinned or chosen to not have anything to do with god, to have their short lives ended in often long, drawn out, painful ways.
i could list stories i've read that would probably make you feel ill, but i'm not looking to shock anyone or start an emotional debate.
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defender of truth
Could an all-powerful God have made a world that did not involve millions of years of animal suffering and death?.. What do you think?
Matthew 19:26
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75% of Jehovahs Witnesses oppose same-sex marriage? And 12% are in favour of it??
by defender of truth inwww.allgov.com/news/controversies/which-religions-oppose-same-sex-marriage-white-evangelicals-black-and-hispanic-protestants-mormons-and-muslims-150424?news=856319.
opposition to same-sex marriage is prominent among many religious groups in the united states, according to a new survey.groups with the largest opposition to homosexuals marrying are jehovahs witnesses (75%), mormons (68%), white evangelical protestants (66%), hispanic protestants (58%), black protestants (54%), and muslims (51%), the public religion research institute found in its survey of 40,000 americans.among white evangelical protestants, white baptists are the most opposed (72%).on the acceptance side of the issue, the most supportive are buddhists (84%), jews (77%), americans who select other religion (75%), and white mainline protestants (62%).a breakdown of white mainline protestant denominations shows support is highest among presbyterians (69%) and both episcopalians and congregationalists/united church of christ members (68%).even a majority of white mainline baptists (53%) back same-sex marriages.
among catholics, 61% of whites and 60% of hispanics support gay weddings.. and the survey is here:.
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defender of truth
Opposition to same-sex marriage is prominent among many religious groups in the United States, according to a new survey.
Groups with the largest opposition to homosexuals marrying are Jehovah’s Witnesses (75%), Mormons (68%), white evangelical Protestants (66%), Hispanic Protestants (58%), black Protestants (54%), and Muslims (51%), the Public Religion Research Institute found in its survey of 40,000 Americans.
Among white evangelical Protestants, white Baptists are the most opposed (72%).
On the acceptance side of the issue, the most supportive are Buddhists (84%), Jews (77%), Americans who select “Other religion” (75%), and white mainline Protestants (62%).
A breakdown of white mainline Protestant denominations shows support is highest among Presbyterians (69%) and both Episcopalians and Congregationalists/United Church of Christ members (68%).
Even a majority of white mainline Baptists (53%) back same-sex marriages. Among Catholics, 61% of whites and 60% of Hispanics support gay weddings.And the survey is here:
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JW.org does partial U-turn over Awake! magazine Rama Singh misquote
by Watchtower-Free inposted on april 19, 2015http://jwsurvey.org/cedars-blog/jw-org-does-partial-u-turn-over-awake-magazine-rama-singh-misquote
jw.org has removed their misquote of rama singh from digital versions of awake!
magazine.
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defender of truth
Excellent thread. As shown in this article, the Rama singh quote was not the only one that was misleading..
" It turned out that non-English-language versions of the magazine included the professor’s full name: Gerard Hertel. And while Hertel’s quotation was accurate, the magazine left out a relevant bit of information that was discovered elsewhere:
Hertel writes that he “now spends his time teaching the Bible as one of Jehovah’s Witnesses“
In other words, he’s one of them. Not exactly an unbiased source.
This is what religious propaganda looks like.
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The Rowland v. Christian case was used to arrive at the Conti decision... But should there have been a legal duty to prevent harm?
by defender of truth inthe factors of the rowland v. christian case were applied to arrive at the latest conti ruling, according to an article entitled 'in childhood sexual abuse case, california appellate court finds church has no duty to prevent its members from harming each other':"the sole basis for the punitive damages claim was the contention that the defendants failed to fulfill their duty of warning members of the congregation that the witness had molested a child.on appeal, the reviewing court found that the alleged duty to warn could not be justified on the basis of a special relationship because there is no authority for any such broad duty on the part of a church to prevent its members from harming each other.
the court also applied the factors of rowland v. christian to determine whether a duty existed..."www.jdsupra.com/legalnews/in-childhood-sexual-abuse-case-californ-19456/......now take a look at this:" california civil code section 1714 imposes a general duty of ordinary care, which by default requires all persons to take reasonable measures to prevent harm to others.
in the 1968 case of rowland v. christian, the court held that judicial exceptions to this general duty of care should only be created if clearly justified based on the following public-policy factors:*.the foreseeability of harm to the injured party;*.the degree of certainty he or she suffered injury;*.the closeness of the connection between the defendants conduct and the injury suffered;*.the moral blame attached to the defendants conduct;*.the policy of preventing future harm;*.the extent of the burden to the defendant and the consequences to the community of imposing a duty of care with resulting liability for breach;*.and the availability, cost, and prevalence of insurance for the risk involved.
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defender of truth
The factors of the Rowland v. Christian case were applied to arrive at the latest Conti ruling, according to an article entitled 'In Childhood Sexual Abuse Case, California Appellate Court Finds Church has No Duty to Prevent Its Members from Harming Each Other':
"The sole basis for the punitive damages claim was the contention that the defendants failed to fulfill their duty of warning members of the congregation that the Witness had molested a child.
On appeal, the reviewing court found that the alleged duty to warn could not be justified on the basis of a special relationship because there is “no authority for any such broad duty on the part of a church to prevent its members from harming each other.” The court also applied the factors of Rowland v. Christian to determine whether a duty existed..."
www.jdsupra.com/legalnews/in-childhood-sexual-abuse-case-californ-19456/
......
Now take a look at this:
" California Civil Code section 1714 imposes a general duty of ordinary care, which by default requires all persons to take reasonable measures to prevent harm to others.
In the 1968 case of Rowland v. Christian, the court held that judicial exceptions to this general duty of care should only be created if clearly justified based on the following public-policy factors:
*.the foreseeability of harm to the injured party;
*.the degree of certainty he or she suffered injury;
*.the closeness of the connection between the defendant’s conduct and the injury suffered;
*.the moral blame attached to the defendant’s conduct;
*.the policy of preventing future harm;
*.the extent of the burden to the defendant and the consequences to the community of imposing a duty of care with resulting liability for breach;
*.and the availability, cost, and prevalence of insurance for the risk involved. "
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duty_of_care
So, do you think that the Watchtower should have been found to legally have a duty of care, bearing in mind the above-quoted factors?
Or do you think that the appellate court decision was correct? -
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Latest on Otuo v Jonathan David Morely & Watchtower Bible and Tract Society + Otuo v Watchtower Bible & Tract Society
by Adwoa Kromo ina month ago someone inquired about where the case against watchtower in otuo v watchtower was at currently.
firstly the claimant has brought two separate claims against the watchtower .
case 1 relates to a suit in slander premised on the words , "frank otuo is no longer a jehovah witness".
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defender of truth
Thank you so much for posting this.. few people seemed to take note of how big this case could be. Please can you keep us updated?
Earlier thread here:
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Theists, why does God allow suffering..
by The Quiet One in..specifically, the suffering of animals.
you can talk about free will/sin/people choosing to not listen to god etc to explain human suffering being allowed.. but how can you love a god that allows animals, that haven't sinned or chosen to not have anything to do with god, to have their short lives ended in often long, drawn out, painful ways.
i could list stories i've read that would probably make you feel ill, but i'm not looking to shock anyone or start an emotional debate.
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defender of truth
In this discussion, Michael Murray (he's a theist who wrote a book called nature, red in tooth and claw) defends the concept that a 'good' God could allow animals to suffer and die for millions of years.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=GPTvxlkSJzg
This is is a review of Michael Murray's book for anyone who is interested:
www.apologetics315.com/2014/03/book-review-nature-red-in-tooth-and.html?m=1
Please share any thoughts or questions that you have on the discussion.
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Do you want to take action to support mandatory child abuse reporting? (UK or US mainly)
by defender of truth inthis quote is just for discussion purposes, not my political bias or anything... .
" a 'revolution in attitudes' is needed to safeguard children from sex abusers, according to the shadow home secretary, yvette cooper.in an interview with the independent on sunday, ms cooper said that the problem was wider than the historic cases uncovered through the jimmy savile scandal and the abuse of hundreds of children in rotherham.she said that childrens voices must be heard by organisations which had failed to act in the past, and pledged that a labour government would make the reporting of abuse a legal requirement... we need to introduce mandatory reporting so that no institution can ever be tempted to think that the reputation of the institution matters more than the protection of the child ... there has to be a stronger obligation to report and to act.labour has included mandatory reporting in the partys pre-election manifesto and has also said it will set up a cross-whitehall unit to tackle child protection.
"http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/child-sex-abuse-shadow-home-secretary-calls-for-revolution-in-attitudes-to-safeguard-vulnerable-10077725.html.
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defender of truth
Why Online Petitions Work
Think of it this way: What if your company received thousands of emails from valued customers asking you to use a different supplier for your parts? What if you started to receive emails from each of your neighbours asking you to stop playing loud music at night? How quickly would you act?
That’s the unique thing about creating an online petition on Change.org: when you specify an email address for your target, each time a supporter signs your petition, an email is automatically sent directly to that person. Governments, companies and individuals value their reputations and feel accountable to their neighbours, constituents and customers. When hundreds or even thousands of emails arrive in their inboxes, the message is very hard to ignore.
www.change.org/en-GB/guides/how-an-online-petition-works
" MandateNow, supported by Survivors UK, Respond and The Survivors Trust, the national umbrella agency for over 130 specialist sexual violence and childhood sexual abuse support organisations throughout the UK, are petitioning for the introduction of legislation to significantly improve the culture and delivery of child protection in faith settings, schools, sports organisations, the NHS, care settings, and other institutions in which children are looked after by trusted adults. "
www.change.org/organizations/hadley_residents_association
Thanks to the likes of jhine and snugglebunny, there are now only..
" 85 signatures needed to reach 7,500 "
www.change.org/p/educationgovuk-introduce-law-requiring-adults-working-with-children-to-report-alleged-abuse-mandatenow -
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A coordinated effort to bring up Watchtower pedophelia to the public's attention.
by Village Idiot ina statement that phizzy made on jonathan drake's thread on flyers gave me the following ideas.. we should make a flyer on the issue of the watchtower pedophilia issue written with the object of alerting the public about the jw door to door activity.
phizzy suggested the title, "the paedophile at your door".. on that flyer should be the contact information of our most informed member on the subject who's willing to talk to the media.
barbara anderson perhaps?.
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defender of truth
I think it would be far more effective to join other groups campaigning for the mandatory reporting of abuse cases.
Fair point. I also support that as a way to make a difference, for the safety of children.
" MandateNow, supported by Survivors UK, Respond and The Survivors Trust, the national umbrella agency for over 130 specialist sexual violence and childhood sexual abuse support organisations throughout the UK, are petitioning for the introduction of legislation to significantly improve the culture and delivery of child protection in faith settings, schools, sports organisations, the NHS, care settings, and other institutions in which children are looked after by trusted adults. "
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A coordinated effort to bring up Watchtower pedophelia to the public's attention.
by Village Idiot ina statement that phizzy made on jonathan drake's thread on flyers gave me the following ideas.. we should make a flyer on the issue of the watchtower pedophilia issue written with the object of alerting the public about the jw door to door activity.
phizzy suggested the title, "the paedophile at your door".. on that flyer should be the contact information of our most informed member on the subject who's willing to talk to the media.
barbara anderson perhaps?.
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defender of truth
I can't get involved in a campaign, I'm still in due to living with JW family.
But I hope that these are helpful...
Best of luck :)
(Who's knocking at your door? Pedophile Flyer)
www.aawa.co/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/ABUSE3.pdf
(spanish version)
www.aawa.co/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/Qui%C3%A9n-est%C3%A1-tocando-a-su-puerta-Whos-Knocking.pdf
(AAwa child abuse flyer)
www.aawa.co/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/AAWA-child-abuse-flyer.pdf
The child abuse flyer is also available in French, Portugese, Romanian and Italian..
www.aawa.co/publications/flyers-and-handouts/